Our Military Community

00:00:40:11 - 00:00:59:12
Unknown
Hello, everyone. Jerry, dab it with you again with another edition of our military community. Got a very special one going on today. We're actually going to be talking about some of the things going on in the community, the whole project in particular that does a lot of things, but it's all volunteer and everything. And we got some great stories today, some great information.

00:00:59:14 - 00:01:20:09
Unknown
So let's get right to it. First of all, I've got three special guests with me today, and I want to introduce, first of all, David Brogden, who is the founder of the whole project, also an Army veteran, Purple Heart recipient. You're a chaplain. David, thanks for coming in today. We appreciate that. Thanks for having us. Eric Winkler, who is an Army veteran, he's also a student here at Gulf Coast State College.

00:01:20:09 - 00:01:38:25
Unknown
So, again, U.S. Army. Eric, thanks for coming in today. Appreciate it Here. And down the end, we have Kevin Holland, who is an Army veteran, and he has his dog, Lucky with him today, a service dog, lucky with him today. Kevin, thanks for coming in. So before we get into this whole deal with the whole project, I want to find out a little bit more about each one of you.

00:01:38:26 - 00:02:00:01
Unknown
So, David, I'm going to start with you. Tell me tell me a little bit about yourself and what led you to this. Well, I grew up in northern Indiana. I'm a hillbilly background. My dad was a pastor and a lot of issues at home with drugs with my older brother. And so we ran away and joined the Army 200 years ago when I was 17 and I was enlisted for nine years.

00:02:00:03 - 00:02:29:06
Unknown
And military intelligence, you know, that kind of sounds funny with me especially. And then I left the Army and went to Bible College, went into the pastorate seminary and came back in in 2000 as an Army chaplain. And while I was in the Army, deployed multiple times, I spent over three years in Iraq and Afghanistan and was later, after 25 years, active duty was medically retired and then boarded.

00:02:29:09 - 00:02:50:09
Unknown
And uh, that led me to Florida, where we started the whole project. All right. And we're going to talk about that and what a great project that is. All right. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Well, I didn't quite serve as long as David did, unfortunately. I think he served longer than I was. I'm alive. But I joined the Army out of college.

00:02:50:10 - 00:03:14:11
Unknown
I was initially going to join the Marines, but they messed up my paperwork and tried to ship me out before I graduated high school. My mom would not sign the papers and so I finished high school, decided college was my next option, and college was not my next option. So I dropped out and joined the Army and I spent three years at Fort Bragg in North Carolina and ended up kind of bouncing all around the South after the Army.

00:03:14:11 - 00:03:36:27
Unknown
I lived in Tennessee, north Mississippi and now Florida, but I ended up here and I found the Hope Project and it's been great. What are you studying, by the way, here? I am studying business. The eventual goal is to open my own therapy branch, just like the Hope Project. So. Good deal. All right, so they would tell me a little bit about you, Kevin.

00:03:37:00 - 00:04:09:00
Unknown
Yeah, but, yeah, it's all good. Yeah. And army, of course. After the. After the army. I was a truck driver for a while, but most of my PTSD and stuff comes from heart attacks, strokes. I'm a extreme heart patient. That's why I my dog, I've had eight or 11 stents, eight heart attacks, stroke, mini stroke, a six inch cage in my lower back and four plates, my neck.

00:04:09:03 - 00:04:29:17
Unknown
Wow. And he was hurt pretty bad in the hurricane and that's how I met David and the whole project. And the thing about that is to Kevin is, unfortunately, the VA doesn't pay for stuff like that. So you have to get that on your own. And that leads us to you, David. You started the whole project and we've got a graphic.

00:04:29:17 - 00:04:50:05
Unknown
We're going to throw it up that tells you about the different things that you provide. And tell me, first of all, this is not for pay. This is free, right? Everything we do is free. And tell everybody I was God sense of humor because when I started it with a couple friends back then, I didn't know anything about horses at all.

00:04:50:07 - 00:05:18:17
Unknown
I didn't know Equine Horse and I wondered what were they going to do with hippos? And you talk about hypnotherapy. And I was smart in one area where I surround myself with horse folks, horse people, and even to this day, my horse people make all decisions. And so most of our horses are rescues. Right now we have 13 horses, two donkeys, three potbelly pigs, six goats and three barn cats, all rescues kind of like us vets.

00:05:18:20 - 00:05:43:16
Unknown
And when we started it, all I knew was that you could use horses to help veterans with PTSD and wounded warriors. And so I kind of know what that feels like. And since then, I found out how amazing they are. Have they read your facial expressions, your body language? Every part of a horse's body is as sensitive as your fingertip, and they can even hear your heartbeat up to four feet away.

00:05:43:19 - 00:06:13:19
Unknown
So I call them equine lie detectors, you know. And so we started with first responders and veterans, of course, and active military. And we just kept kind of growing. And you don't have to be a veteran with PTSD or first responder. We don't turn anyone away who needs help. But the vast, vast majority of those we work with are primarily veterans and their families.

00:06:13:21 - 00:06:40:05
Unknown
And it's an amazing thing because actually the equine therapy is very powerful and the way it works is will work with someone with an issue and we will give them a task to do involving the horses. Most of us on the ground could be taking the horses through an obstacle course or something like that. And speaking of this equine therapy, Eric, let me jump to you.

00:06:40:05 - 00:07:00:01
Unknown
What what does this actually do for you? I know I'm an old farm boy myself. I grew up on a farm and I grew around animals and I know how common they can be. What are these animals doing for you? Well, I also grew up in a ranching kind of family ranching community. So I've been on the back of a horse my whole life.

00:07:00:03 - 00:07:15:26
Unknown
And I've always found, especially when I kind of got to college and I worked as a cowboy, as I as I pretended to go to school the first time around. And I found that it was the only place that I really was. It was quiet, you know, I had to be quiet for the horse to know and not freak out.

00:07:15:26 - 00:07:46:05
Unknown
And I had to put my trust on this horse to not freak out. And so it was something that it is something that that allows me to kind of have perspective. I have to be able to trust the horse. I have to trust myself, and the horse has to be able to trust me. And so that's a it's a big deal in terms of forcing my my PTSD and my anxiety to kind of subside because I know that there's somebody else that I have responsibility for.

00:07:46:08 - 00:08:04:01
Unknown
You know, this is amazing to hear some of these things. Kevin, not only do you have your service dog there, but you also have the horses. What is what does this do for you? How does it I know you mentioned you have a lot of PTSD problems and things of this nature. How does this help you cope with everyday life?

00:08:04:01 - 00:08:34:17
Unknown
Because sometimes, I mean, it can be overwhelming, extremely overwhelming. Horses get around and they calm you down. You can talk to them. You don't have to worry about them telling people, as we like to say, except for the donkeys, don't tell everybody. But it really does. And they're so emotional. It's they're just as majestic. There's no day, you know, Of course, I get lucky.

00:08:34:20 - 00:09:05:10
Unknown
But there is a huge difference between what he does and what they do. He's there for. He's trained PTSD, hardened stroke, but the horses, they kind of take care of me if I'm feeling bad, feeling suicidal, whatever they know, and they'll come up to me. They'll love on me, too. It's just awesome, awesome experience and it's really no words to compare it to.

00:09:05:12 - 00:09:41:13
Unknown
David how does a we heard these these two gentlemen stories right now. How does that make you feel to see these animals responding to these people and them responding back? What does that do for you? It's it's a huge blessing because the horses do it for me to horses know your emotions. So if I'm struggling with my own issues, my own PTSD or even thoughts of suicide, that's interesting because my equine specialist, we do therapy as a team and sometimes the horses will react more to me than they will to the client or the person we're working with.

00:09:41:13 - 00:10:09:15
Unknown
And so she'll say, okay, Chappy, what's going on? And the love they give. They're always in the know. And even though they've had their traumas and everything, they focus on you. And it's I'm just constantly amazed to see how the horses that I know their personalities normally and they act differently with different people. Exactly. It's like it's like they're your friend in an Eric.

00:10:09:15 - 00:10:26:22
Unknown
Having a friend like that that you can confide in. And like Kevin said, they don't talk back to you. They don't tell you that, well, you needed to put on a different shirt or you need to come here. They accept you and they're there and they realize that you are and they can sense that. Yeah, it's definitely a freeing feeling.

00:10:26:22 - 00:10:55:21
Unknown
You know, you're always worried about a therapist going around and blabbing about your gosh and gossiping about you. I know that's not what they're allowed to do, but it's always something in the back of my mind that we used. And so knowing that I can, you know, talk through all of my internal feelings, my thoughts, this all the stuff that's going on in my head and all the stuff around me to this random, you know, horse who may or may not care, but who knows, you know, enough that he's paying attention, that that's always something that's so freeing.

00:10:55:21 - 00:11:16:18
Unknown
It's a it's a free therapy session. And Kevin, you know, a lot of people say, oh, yeah, okay, so you're talking to this animal. Is there something wrong with you? But not really. Yes. You're talking to the animal. It's given you your release, You know that you can tell this animal exactly how you feel and that animal's not going to sit and wag his finger at you and tell you all your stupid or something like that.

00:11:16:24 - 00:11:40:09
Unknown
That animal accepts you. And if you talk to the animal, how how does that get the pent up emotions inside out so that you can make yourself feel better? You start talking to him and it's it's amazing what comes out of your mouth and you actually tell him, you know, start telling him your secrets. You'll start telling him everything that bothers you.

00:11:40:11 - 00:12:06:16
Unknown
It's just it's magical. You start out a pretty horse. You know, your explain your guts to this horse. And he just sits there and he listens. He loves you. He understands because you're so sensitive. It's just for me. I get headaches. I've had them take the headaches away, which is amazing because I haven't found a pill yet that does right.

00:12:06:18 - 00:12:27:08
Unknown
And I'm going to start with that. My hobby deployed was getting teary eyed because I wasn't a fan of it. And horses do talk back in their own way. Sure they do. And there are no barriers. If you go to see a therapist or me acting as a chaplain, you come into an office. There's always this barrier of trust.

00:12:27:08 - 00:12:49:23
Unknown
And how open can I be? Am I going to get corrected? You know, something like that or the horse? They listen and they do respond. I've had a lot of clients will turn around and hug them, you know? Sure. And so it's an amazing thing. You just have to experience. And that's one of the big things, Eric, is, you know, I've done a lot of work with the veterans in my Air Force career.

00:12:49:23 - 00:13:15:21
Unknown
I've worked with all the different branches of the military and that trust that they give you, it's like a it's like a peaceful feeling. It's like going out on a moonlit night looking at the stars and everything and saying, Thank you, God for his beautiful day. That's the way these animals make me feel. Absolutely. I don't have to worry about this private going out and buying a Dodge Charger or this horse going out and buying a Dodge Charger at 30% PR, Right.

00:13:15:23 - 00:13:36:03
Unknown
Or marrying somebody from an unseemly nightclub. You know, I he trusts me and I trust him. And I don't have to to worry about, you know, what he's doing. I just have to to know that he's he knows what he's doing. I know what I'm doing. And he has to know the same thing. And so it kind of puts us both in a position of power over ourselves.

00:13:36:06 - 00:14:04:09
Unknown
But this horse knows that I trust him, and I know that I trust this horse. And both of us were told we were both bought, boarded. So the army told us we were broken. Right. You know, I was unfit to continue service. But being able to take care of these horses and, you know, to do something with them and have them respond that, hey, you're not broken, you're not crazy, you know, and to love on us like we love on them.

00:14:04:12 - 00:14:37:27
Unknown
It's this amazing thing. And one of the other things to Kevin, in addition to the animals and everything, you also you have group sessions and things like that and it's a lot different you talking with with the horse or the donkey, whatever's out there, the goat, it doesn't make any difference. We're talking within a group of people. How do you get from talking to an animal that doesn't talk back to you, to talking with a group of people that have feelings, that have emotions, that have thoughts just like you do.

00:14:37:27 - 00:15:03:17
Unknown
How do you transition from the animal to back to the human counseling sessions? Well, with time, you know, I know that they've had trauma just like I've had trauma. So it's we all understand each other. We all get it. We're not we're not civilians. Once you're army or always army, once you're a vet, you know, civilians don't really understand and they would never understand.

00:15:03:19 - 00:15:39:17
Unknown
And David jokes a lot. We don't even like civilians. But for here in definitely with the guys we're a family. Exactly. And we do things as a family. We love each other. We're constantly checking on each other. I think that takes David five times a day. You're doing okay, but we hold each other responsible for their self, but they know any of the guys they ever need anything to talk to, call any of us.

00:15:39:19 - 00:16:03:08
Unknown
We're there for them, just like they're there for me. And. And, Eric, you're you're one of the younger people and everything. And how does that make you feel that as a young adult you're able to talk to the David the Kevin, you said here, when you talk to me, we talk before the show. How does that make you feel, knowing that we're not going to say, shut up, kid, You know, you don't know anything, but you're treated as an equal.

00:16:03:09 - 00:16:20:19
Unknown
How does that make you feel in these groups? It makes me feel really great. You know, if you're a veteran of any kind, y'all, we're talking about a 102 year old World War Two better child. Now, I know that I would go in there and I would have a conversation. We would relate to the same thing, right? I never got the chance to deploy.

00:16:20:22 - 00:16:39:15
Unknown
I had numerous opportunities, but we had broken trucks and you know, the other units got to go and, you know, so my injuries came and training and, you know, it's they don't devalue that. They don't look at me and be like, oh, you don't get it. You know, I still, you know, I don't I can't say I've ever been in combat in a foreign war.

00:16:39:15 - 00:16:58:23
Unknown
I've had plenty of skirmishes and little bars around Fayetteville. But, you know, knowing that they don't look at me any differently because my service looks different than others, they knows that they know enough that my service is, you know, near near the same as them. And there's always something to bond over, to look at, to laugh about. We all look the same.

00:16:58:25 - 00:17:20:09
Unknown
Exactly. And and that's what I was going to bring up to David is people look at me and they say, Well, Jerry, you're here for and you talk to these Army guys and get along with them. The Marines, the Navy, the Coast Guard. How can you do that? You're different. I said, No, no, no. I said, we may all wear a different color uniform, but I said, If you line every one of us from the branch of service up, line us up and cut our risk, what color we bleed red.

00:17:20:09 - 00:17:38:03
Unknown
I said, There you have it. So it doesn't make any difference. But veterans tend to you can have a group of 100 people out there and you can have ten veterans. And I'll guarantee you within an hour those ten veterans are talking to one another because you can sense that you have that brotherhood, you know that you can sense that.

00:17:38:05 - 00:18:03:19
Unknown
But, you know, you're a chaplain also. And faith is very important. How do you go through with your chaplain counseling to serve as a David, when you have people like Eric and and Kevin that may be very bitter and say the good Lord just doesn't take care of me? I mean, everybody's against me. How do you get that?

00:18:03:19 - 00:18:24:20
Unknown
Go over that home and come down the other side? Well, I saw the same thing when I was active duty. And first of all, we never force our faith on anyone. Right. And so when I'm talking to someone and they let me know that faith is a part, you know, just by listening that faith is a part of their background or where they're out now.

00:18:24:22 - 00:18:49:14
Unknown
And we do talk about issues about moral injury or survivor guilt, and we can bring faith into that. And so it's building relationships. And one of the reasons I chose not to be a licensed therapist or I have the education in the background I could do that is I still wanted to be a chaplain, right where we can have community.

00:18:49:14 - 00:19:26:13
Unknown
And that's one of the big things we do now. Equine therapy is awesome because we transition from transition from what a horse does while we're observing or to okay, why did the horse what do you think the horse did that and it just opens up a door of discussion. And so it's like the military we had military I mean, we had a ministry of presence where if we're just being around each other, we build that bond, we build that relationship and that trust to be able to talk about anything, especially faith, because that's huge to me.

00:19:26:13 - 00:19:49:21
Unknown
And I think that's one of the what's missing ingredient in our thing therapy today is that we've taken God completely out. One other thing, too, is, is you just you have the animals there and you have the groups, but you also have outside resources that come in and talk with you and tell you what your what's your favorite outside resource that comes in.

00:19:49:21 - 00:20:20:03
Unknown
Eric Well, so far, insulin over from the Vet center in Panama City. She's been great. She kind of comes in and monitors our group. We don't really let her talk that much. She's kind of there just so that she's there. But she's she's always got good input. She doesn't, you know, try to therapy. And I think that being in a group of vets, in a group setting, you know, having someone try to lead a discussion when we can just talk about whatever and go through that and she's just kind of adding input, adding little, little directions.

00:20:20:05 - 00:20:40:10
Unknown
She I mean, it really makes it so that I don't feel like I'm doing therapy because therapy is never been something that's easy. I never really felt I can trust these guys. I don't know if I can trust the person behind a desk, and she never acts like that, right? Kevin What what's your favorite? The different resources. I mean, PTSD, grief, family addictions, whatever.

00:20:40:15 - 00:21:02:10
Unknown
What's your favorite that is provided out there for you? Oh, we we work a lot. Real close fraternity peer, which is a drug rehab. And most of those people, a lot of them come there in their vets because, you know, vets get PTSD. They start drinking, doing drugs. And that's one of my favorite. I love working with them.

00:21:02:12 - 00:21:20:23
Unknown
They come out usually every Friday and stay a couple of hours with this and eat lunch and play with the horses and talk to us. And it's it's great. David, I know you got a whole list in your mind. Let's go over some of the resources that are available out there. I know Matt Standish from the vets. Yes, that's a great guy.

00:21:20:23 - 00:21:47:04
Unknown
He comes out, we work with the vet center very closely and we love the vet center and we refer back and forth. Same thing. I work with the VA and the VA behavioral health will send us, you know, some of their clients and we'll work with them or, you know, anytime I'm talking to someone and and I see that, you know, they may need the VA or they may need the vet center.

00:21:47:06 - 00:22:13:05
Unknown
So that's huge. But also, we work very closely with all the veteran organizations, probably a member of every organization in Bay County and several in Washington County. Now. And, you know, those are all types of support groups were, you know, veterans and families are doing things together and I think that's huge because the danger is a veteran that isolates or feels like they're all alone.

00:22:13:05 - 00:22:45:10
Unknown
And that's where you get into trouble or, you know, one of my pet peeves are churches or people who meet someone like us and say, okay, I know you're struggling. Go talk to the VA. Well, let's let's All right, here. Can I talk? Yeah, Let's build a community where we're not just on our own. There's there's all kinds of group outings that you do to go and what some of the group items that you like to go on.

00:22:45:13 - 00:23:12:22
Unknown
I love going down to ten. Oh, we worked course with Tyndall and their P program and love it. The kids come out there, they just smile and they're loving it. We'll bring our many horses down and let them paint on it and put their hands and paint. It's so fun and very rewarding. And I can tell David, I know that makes you feel good to see that smile on his face.

00:23:12:24 - 00:23:43:10
Unknown
And we have groups that are coming the whole year and we've had ten dog in there. Basically, they're in senior leaders, course they're in SEAL Academy come out. We'll do a competition between them with the horses and team building and we even do suicide prevention training using the horses. Eric, when you go out again, you know, not to pick on you, but being one of the younger members that are with hope and everything, they actually listen to you, don't they?

00:23:43:17 - 00:24:08:23
Unknown
Yeah, a little bit. A little bit. Not a lot, but a little bit. But you can relate to them too. Yeah. It you know, I'm, I would call myself the lone man, but it doesn't feel like I'm the little man, you know, I don't feel like the new guy. I feel like I fit in. You know, I've got my puzzle piece, has a spot in their puzzle and being able to have that, you know, I live by myself in Bay County.

00:24:08:23 - 00:24:27:04
Unknown
My nearest family member is over a thousand miles away. Wow. And having this makes it it's a whole different thing. You know, I always I struggled for a while, you know, being by myself. And I found this and being able to come here and slot right in and not skip a beat, you know, they're like, All right, well, you're going to do this.

00:24:27:07 - 00:24:45:17
Unknown
David likes to joke that, you know, within three weeks I'd be making half of his pay. Now he does it twice, twice, three times, usually two times zero is what you made a you made a statement where you said, Eric, my my family's over a thousand miles away. You got it exactly right here. And that's the thing right there.

00:24:45:20 - 00:25:01:06
Unknown
We're going to run out of time before we get all this in. But David, I want to talk to you a little bit, too, about there's you, of course, need help. You need donations. And they can go to the website, the whole project, and they can get the information. But what are some volunteer opportunities where people can come and help you?

00:25:01:07 - 00:25:28:19
Unknown
What do you need? And things of that nature? We need everything. And so with volunteers, it depends on what they want to do, what they're able to do. Like if you don't have a background with horses, you're not going to be in there with the horses, right? You know, that's something you may grow into. And, you know, our barn manager, our horse people, if someone like Eric, he was did rodeo okay.

00:25:28:22 - 00:25:54:28
Unknown
But before he could be out with the horses, he had to kind of pass inspection our horse people to make sure because sometimes somebody said, oh, I'm a horse person and they don't know how to put a halter on. But you know, what are you able to do? What do you want to do? And with a 20 acre ranch, with that many animals, right in this many outings, and we stay so busy, we reach anywhere between 3 to 500 a month, there are plenty of things to do.

00:25:55:00 - 00:26:14:09
Unknown
And so we love volunteers. And you mentioned fundraising. None of us take a salary, so everything goes right into taking care of those animals and taking care of our. Before we run out of time here. David, we have one more graphic I want to put up there. It's called It's the Whole Project Weekly equine Therapy. Tell us about that, please.

00:26:14:09 - 00:26:40:07
Unknown
That's it for us. This is something we wanted to do for a long time. We had been doing veteran equine therapy for years, and primarily it was individuals and a few small groups. But this is a partnership with the vet center and this is growing. Since we started, and we may have ten or more vets that come every Monday afternoon at 1600 and we're seeing amazing results.

00:26:40:07 - 00:26:56:29
Unknown
And so the vet center is plugging in. Veterans. We're plugging in veterans because you called me the morning I did looking for your client therapy. And I said, hey, we've got this right. And he jumped right in in ordered me to be there. Well, I did. I did it in a colonel. He was like, No, he pulled rank.

00:26:57:01 - 00:27:15:13
Unknown
But that's the thing. There's there. There is. And that's why it's so appropriately named the Hope Project. There's hope for people where we're starting to get close to the time limit here. But before we do go, I want to give each of you a chance for some closing remarks. Kevin, what would you like to say about this whole thing that we talked about today, the whole project?

00:27:15:13 - 00:27:43:28
Unknown
Whatever. My biggest thing is a 22 a day, which is now they say it's 44 day. Yes, that is terrible. That is inexcusable. In my books, we all know it's much higher now because a lot of people do not register with the V.A. And that's that's one of my babies. That's okay. That's my drive. Sounds great. Eric, I know there's a lot of veterans who go here.

00:27:44:00 - 00:28:03:14
Unknown
I've met them. I find them, they find me. And, you know, even if you everybody's got some form of trauma, whether or not it's full on PTSD, you know, and a lot of it is service related. A lot of it is, you know, I have to keep my I obviously don't have this one, but, you know, OCD with your hair, you know, with your appearance, I let that go as soon as I got out.

00:28:03:14 - 00:28:32:23
Unknown
But, you know, it's a place for someone who served to find people who are like minded, you know, someone who knows what they what they're going through, what they're thinking about. And I know, like like David said, you know, civilians don't usually get that. You know, a lot of them you know, a lot of kids at this school wouldn't be able to relate to a lot of the things that I've seen, a lot of things that I've gone through and being able to find that and find something that's it's not official, you know, you don't have to be there.

00:28:32:25 - 00:28:55:19
Unknown
You know, you're not ordered to be there, but it's something that you can enjoy. Know, David, we got about a minute and a half that we'll let you close it out here, finish it up. Well, you know, Kevin mentioned this suicide. The reason we do what we do and all the time, I mean, I'm retired, you know, I don't have to do this, but there are somewhere between 22 to 44 vets and their families.

00:28:55:19 - 00:29:16:08
Unknown
We also minister to families. And my faith says where there's God, there's always hope. And I know that the number one symptom of someone who may be suicidal is hopelessness. And so that's what we're about, is sharing the hope and reaching as many as we can. David, Eric, Kevin, thank you so much for coming in today to appreciate it.

00:29:16:08 - 00:29:36:07
Unknown
Thank you very much. Unfortunately, we're about to run out of time here. We got like a minute to go, but I just want to say don't ever give up hope. There's always someone out there, something out there that can help you and the whole project up in Fountain. Go online to the whole Project Inc dot org and check that out.

00:29:36:13 - 00:29:55:25
Unknown
There is hope no matter where you're at. And the good thing about it, this is not just for military. This is for first responders, their families, abused children, abused victims, special needs, all of this. But above all, remember that there is somebody out there. And as we get into this holiday season now, people start to lose a lot of this feeling.

00:29:55:25 - 00:30:12:00
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They start to feel alone. But don't do that. Reach out to someone, someone that is there for you, that will not turn you down. The whole project, thank them very much for their work. That'll do it for today's edition of our Military community. I'm Jerry Tabart. We'll see you again next week. Have a great week, everyone.